Problem with dosing pumps

[Arne]

Hi,

I moved over to the latest software version: 2.93 because I heard there were issues with the dosing pumps.
What were these issues?

In my case, dosing pumps 1 - 5 work okay, 6 - 8 unfortunately not.

Pump 6: pressing "Refill" adds only 1 dose. Pressing "Manual dosing" makes the pump run properly.
Pump 7: adding doses works (50 doses) but pump does not run at all.
Pump 8: adding doses does not work, pump does not run (no doses?).

I installed this version software hoping the dosing pumps would work...
Is this a software bug?

Yes, I tested all pumps, they work fine. So that's not the reason it's not working.

[Rob F]

I just loaded v2.93 using the same boards you have they all work. Not sure what the problem was before but try going to "settings", "system" and "restore defaults", since you've been trying different versions the settings might be messed up, sounds like it because of the issue on pump 6 and pump 8. This also will affect if they run or not.

[Arne]

Thanks Rob.
Will this affect my light settings?

[Rob F]

I hate to say it will but if you can wait a day or two I'll add the sync procedure back in, I'm very close to finishing the custom rules update so I'll put it in that one. That's what the sync button under the defaults is for. Instead of restoring all defaults it will transfer all settings from display (what you see) to the controller so they match up, then you won't lose any current settings.

[Arne]

Well I already did the restore Rob...
When you have your tank running it's not easy to wait for things to get working, sorry to say so.

It looks like the refilling of the bottles work now but this board has a hardware problem.
I have to dive into it but a quick look tells me it looks like the two outputs not working has a different output transistor.
The leds on the pumps light, just a little but not enough voltage to let the pump motors run.

[niksunen]

Well I already did the restore Rob...
When you have your tank running it's not easy to wait for things to get working, sorry to say so.

It looks like the refilling of the bottles work now but this board has a hardware problem.
I have to dive into it but a quick look tells me it looks like the two outputs not working has a different output transistor.
The leds on the pumps light, just a little but not enough voltage to let the pump motors run.

If im remember correctly, Rob said a while ago, that he put accidentaly (or something else reason, i dont remember)  some boards wrong transistors. Right ones, should be D882. But when Rob comes online, he can confirm if i remember correctly or have i "seen a dream" :D

[Arne]

In the old new, new old, old boards too?
Or only the new ones?... ;-)

Well it looks like I have to take things apart, again...

Let's see if I can find this post you're talking about Niksun.

[Arne]

Yep, two wrong transistors were mounted. Replaced them, now it works.
This makes me question how this board was tested... was it tested?

[Rob F]

I find that hard to believe, the dosing pumps use a small transistor, I only have one type of transistor that fits and they all come from the same big reel so don't know how two can be different, maybe they went bad but can't be different. The D882 Niksu is talking about has nothing to do with dosing pumps. Your boards were fully tested as they were the first set to be shipped

[Rob F]

When you have your tank running it's not easy to wait for things to get working, sorry to say so.

I don't think that is fair from you, when you bought Robo-Tank you bought the original version, you felt wronged because I came out with new hardware so I agreed to give you a free upgrade, I asked you nicely several times to wait till things stabilize and told you there would be lots of updates to come (uploads) and there would probably be some issues, but you kept insisting I get the to you right away so I did, now you act like this is all a surprise and you seem like everything is an inconvience, if you waited like I asked you wouldn't be having to rip things apart all the time or upload updates that are difficult.

[Arne]

Edited this post, why should I try to convince you?

[Rob F]

You're right, there could have been two types, I probably switched to a new reel at that time. But they weren't the wrong type because I have my original running with one type and new version with what I currently have. Glad you got it working though, hopefully no more problems going forward.

[Arne]

When you have your tank running it's not easy to wait for things to get working, sorry to say so.

I don't think that is fair from you, when you bought Robo-Tank you bought the original version, you felt wronged because I came out with new hardware so I agreed to give you a free upgrade, I asked you nicely several times to wait till things stabilize and told you there would be lots of updates to come (uploads) and there would probably be some issues, but you kept insisting I get the to you right away so I did, now you act like this is all a surprise and you seem like everything is an inconvience, if you waited like I asked you wouldn't be having to rip things apart all the time or upload updates that are difficult.

I don't think this is the place to start a discussion like this but since you brought it up, I would like to respond to that...

In fact it's a little different then your story Rob. I bought Robo-Tank and before it arrived, I think 3 days after I ordered, you told me you would launch a complete new design because you were running against the limits of the old board. Okay, to be honest, I could have lived with that eventhough it's not very nice to hear that the product I just bought was already obsolete.
You also told me you would stop developing the software for the older version...
I hope you can understand that this might not be what people expect when you tell them about lifetime software updates...

But, we seem to think different about this subject and I'm fine with that... ;-)

I must say that I would expect things to be better tested, I can be honest about that.
I'm an electronic engineer myself, I know testing can be very time consuming and a pain in the ...
I have been developing electronics and circuit boards for more than 30 years, believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

For me as a customer it's frustrating to find out that i.e. the hardware wasn't tested properly. No, I'm not talking about the transistors for the dosing pumps, I'm talking about the signal converter...
Proper testing would have shown this could not work as you expected. This board isn't rocket science.
Me as a customer have to convince you there's a flaw in your design and unfortunately this doesn't improve the atmosphere, eventhough I'm more than happy to help you out... ;-)

And Rob, when I told you about the flaw, it seemed you could test this yourself to see whether I was right or not.
Why didn't you test it before?
Now you ended up with electronics and boards you could not use the way you expected. Of course I can make my board work, but how about the other customers you expect they start soldering SMD components from their board to make it work properly?
And again, a new design...

Yes, of course I know you cannot always test till you drop... there will always be situations where especially the software could work different than expected.
But, certain things can and should be tested and of course, customers will find bugs too... ;-)
And, but that's my opinion, if you decide to use the customers as testers, you could be a bit more open for "suggestions" and not taking everything personaly.

Of course we make mistakes, after all we are only human. But, I trust hardware and software to be tested, sorry...
I'm more than happy to invest time and effort to think about how to improve Robo-Tank, and Rob, you know how I think about that.
Take a quick look at the "comments & suggestions" section, it's obvious I do my share of thinking how to improve Robo-Tank.
I have given you so many tips how to improve you're design and I'm happy to see some of them coming back in the newly designed boards.

Please don't understand me wrong, I'm not against uploading sketches now and then. But running an aquarium with live stock and expensive corals changes things a lot when it appears software wasn't tested properly...
I hope you understand... ;-)

[Rob F]

Sorry for all the trouble these things have caused you, I'm trying my best and feel bad when I mess up and I do appreciate the advice you have given. My goal isn't to keep updating the hardware, I want that part to be over more than you think. I definitely enjoy the coding side of the project more but I had to make changes because RevA of Gen2 wasn't going to cut it, even if the signal converter worked, the cables connecting the boards were fragile and assembly was a long process. I'm happy with RevB boards, easier for customers to work with and quicker to assemble. I'm basically done with hardware until I get all the features working, then there will be I2C addon's which will be optional and not effect software.

I'm sorry if I offended you and any advice you have is always welcomed.

[Arne]

Thanks Rob... ;-)
Like I said, we are only human, you don't have to be sorry...

I've told you so often, I think you ARE doing a great job and I think Robo-Tank is one of a kind !
Please believe me, I do understand that it is hard sometimes to get critics, especially when you're putting so much time and effort into a project like this.
Parents don't want to hear critics about their children too... ;-)

Writing down stuff isn't always the easiest way to explain what you are trying to say.
But what I mean Rob, you are not the only one putting energy into this project. A lot of people have faith in this project and trust your opinion and your skills, like I do !
But the further you will come, the more people will have Robo-Tank in a live running environment with live stock and they invested a lot of time, money and effort to build their setup.
For them, it's not a bench test anymore...
Then you want stability and not rip up your setup. Testing will become more and more important.

I hope this cleans the air a little, let's look forward... ;-)
Thanks !

[Rob F]

I agree, someone gave me a good idea, I'm going to have 2 software versions, stable and beta. Once I put out the next update I'm going to mark v2.93 as stable as it appears to be close. There isn't much switching going on so not a lot to go wrong, I think the major bugs have been worked out. The next version has lots of improvements to v2.93 which will help with overall stability but I'll be marking it as beta as it has the custom rules and possibly some bugs. I'm pretty confident in it though, if anything shows up it should be a quick fix. Then anyone willing to do testing can load the beta otherwise stay with the latest stable until the beta has been proven good.

[Arne]

I wanted to suggest the same... ;-)

Rob, in v2.93, pressing the manual dose button, a text is displayed: "Pump # is running, please wait..."
In my case, the text of pump #7 shows a very short time, just some sort of flickering.
The others are displayed as long as the pump is running.
That's not the case with pump #7, text pops up and is gone and the pump is still running.

[Arne]

Rob, in Dose Pump Settings, I saw a strange character between the numbers at the Pump Rate, it looked like a capital L.
I pressed the up and down arrows and could also set a negative value.
After running through the numbers up and down it sort of reseted and now a can only set positive values, just like the other pumps.
The text displayed: "Pump 7 is running, please wait..." is working okay now...
But... I'm not sure if this is how you planned it... ;-)

At dosing pump 6 (copper) I've set the Dose Amount to 10ml.
When I switch the screen back and forth, a 1 was put in front of the Dose Amount so it says 110ml.
Pressing i.e. the down arrow, this is how it looks then: 1 9ml.
So the 10 changes to 9 but the leading 1 stays in place... ;-)

[Rob F]

Hi Arne, glad you got that pump 7 working. The other problem is only visual, when you change page views its not clearing all the data on the screen so its leaving behind that number 1, then when you change it one character is cleared so you get that space. You'll also see some visual problems on the home screen. Right now if you press the dosing pump area on the home page it will switch between 1-4 and 4-8 pumps. But if you leave if on 1-4 and pump 7 runs it'll look like that dose came from pump 3 as its location is the same as pump 7. Once you go to another page and return home it'll be how it should and you'll see the dose really came from pump 7 not 3. I fixed a few of these issues, haven't done the home page yet because I'm not really happy with it and haven't come up with anything better yet. And in case you didn't know you can change the names for each of the pumps in the display sketch at starting at line 363.

[Arne]

And in case you didn't know you can change the names for each of the pumps in the display sketch at starting at line 363.

That was my next question Rob... ;-)
Thanks!

Okay, as long as the dosing amount is correct, I just have to remember what my set dosing amount was.
Are these things you have to "clean up" then Rob?

I'm glad I got the dosing pumps connected, saves me a lot of time.
The method I'm using depends on dosing 11 components...
For a couple of components I will make a mix so 8 pumps will be enough.

Rob, is it possible for me to increase a container to say 5 Liter?