Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
ATO second sensor used as pump run-dry protection
#1
I never gave much thought to your intended use of the second float. It seems you are using it as back-up to the optical for the primary level in the sump to prevent an OVERFILL.  I have been using JBJ's ATO for years now without EVER an overfill catastrophe.  MY QUESTION is what protects the pump from running dry when the water level in the reservoir goes BELOW the minimum level. JBJ addresses this issue by placing the SECOND sensor in the reservoir and shuts down the pump to protect it when the reservoir goes dry. To prevent overfilling the sump or extended pump run-dry, it also has a maximum fill time the pump can run. 

I know we previously discussed your hesitation when first thinking about adding an ATO system, but there are many safeties built into today's modern aquarium systems. The biggest is that my SUMP can handle the COMPLETE AMOUNT of reservoir water (6 gal) WITHOUT overflowing. I like the logic so much from the JBJ that my Tunze Osmolator sits in it's original box unused! Also, the JBJ accommodates any 120V pump. However YES, the optical sensor of the Osmolator is far more reliable than float switches, even with the occasional need for cleaning. I DO have to clear my floats from time to time (salt creep, debris, etc). BOTH sensor types can suffer from wire failure (been there, done that) especially in a salt water environment. 

I thought about switching to your ATO when I upgrade to the expansion board. The thought was that a LOW water sensor in the RESERVOIR could send an ALERT when it's time to replenish the reservoir water. My wife, now, acts as that alert as the main pump makes noise when sump water gets low and my wife smacks me on back of the head and says to refill!!!

Sooooo, can your software as it is, support the second sensor in the reservoir and send an alert when low?   I think if I were to mount the float UPSIDE DOWN in the reservoir, when the level DROPS to it, it will shut OFF the ATO (reversing your existing logic) thus protecting the pump. I feel that I don't really need a back-up sensor in the main sump with all the other backups (I think you can set a time out on yours too??)
Here's a link to JBJ's manual. They have TWO modes and three use scenarios.
http://www.jbjlighting.com/media/ATOManual.pdf

With the JBJ, my top off pump runs for five to ten seconds at the most and cycles as necessary throughout the day (some of my tanks have a higher evaporation rate).
Reply to top
#2
When I first looked into the ATO system I came across the Osmolator and found it was basically the gold standard so I decided to go that route, obviously not everyones gold standard lol... I also found out these optical sensors need cleaning every so often so they're definitely not perfect either and as you mentioned that saltwater is a killer, something I still fully don't understand but I know its real and that's one reason I wouldn't want one, usually when I see them everything is covered in corrosion and doesn't look so good. So I would definitely encourage people to have it over the sensor. In the new version there is a time out that can be set, currently its in minutes. The float switches are reversible, you can flip the ring so its backwards.

The new version also has rules for everything, so now you can setup up to 5 more floats/sensors and do whatever you want with them. You can put one float in the reservoir and use it to turn the pump off. These floats can be reversed in the software, you tell it want to do if the float is open or closed. You can also use the ATO sensor and float for other actions. For example if the emergency float was ever triggered it would turn off the ATO pump but you can also tell it to turn off any of the outlets or maybe startup a different pump. Or maybe when the ATO pump gets activated via the optical sensor you could turn off an outlet or maybe after a top off you want to dose the tank with something using a dosing pump. You can use two floats to control one pump or one float can control 3 pumps.

For alerts on this version, if enabled, you'll get an email when the ATO pump turns on and another when it turns off. If the emergency float gets triggered you'll get an email telling you the ATO went bad and it'll stay shut down until you restart it. This email comes through no matter what, well as long as connected to the net. I don't expect it to malfunction but if it does everything will be safe.

You won't be able to receive alerts using the other floats on this version as in the reservoir but I will be adding that fairly quickly. In the end I want every type of alert available. The systems setup so its quit easy to add them, tough part is figuring out which ones are needed.
Reply to top
#3
There are many ways to look at the (Best for you) way to set up the ATO I do not expect Rob to have tis or do this. It is just how I have mine set up.
I have 3 floats in my sump it is a 75G tank.
first float is 5 inches off bottom give or take that is my lowest line for water if that float bottoms out it turns off all the pumps that could get damaged and the heaters that are in there also if they might be exposed to air.

second float is 7 off bottom that is the one that controls my water line in the sump it will only fluctuate less that 1 inch.

Third float is 10 inches up that is my high water sensor if it is triggered it does NOT turn off the pump because my sump is all ready over filled turning off the pump would just add more water and probably over fill the sump.

when my sump needs water I have it set that if it takes more than 3 minutes to add the top off water to stop and sound alarm.

and also before the ato will start the float has to be activated for a minimum of 1 hour that way I know it wasn't a snail that got on the float or some thing like that
Reply to top
#4
rott,

When you state "Third float is 10 inches up that is my high water sensor if it is triggered it does NOT turn off the pump because my sump is all ready over filled turning off the pump would just add more water and probably over fill the sump." Are you referring to your MAIN circulation pump and NOT your top-off pump?? THAT would make sense as when the main pump shuts off, there is always the water in your overflows that return to your sump unless you have a backflow preventer valve inline.

Are you able to achieve this mode/  logic with the R-T version six and the expansion unit? or are you adding to the code?

I like that you have created it to be fault tolerant and allow for a reset in case of snails. Been there, HAD that! ;-)
Reply to top
#5
Rott you will be able to do all that, not for me as I have no sump or reservoir, tap and hose is what I use. I like the minimum activated time before it goes off, I'm going to add that. I can see that useful for lots of things.
Reply to top
#6
Steve
Are you referring to your MAIN circulation pump and NOT your top-off pump yes I am and about the back flow preventers I have all ready killed 2 on my tank I have a mag drive 12


Rob yes it is very useful cant wait to see it in Robo
Reply to top
#7
It's very close to finished, most bugs are fixed, Chris and Dom are running the new version helping me spot the problems. It's basically there just trying to solve some issues with the atlas circuits, Chris has EC and PH so he running tests.
Reply to top
#8
LOL and I was the first to have the chips and probes ;)

I have no time to test a glass of water right now let alone the new sketch's
Reply to top
#9
Yeah I know you're busy, you still don't have the controller running so hard to test. :)
Reply to top
#10
ya man people think it is summer time and school is out so I should be off work man I wish that wish that was true
Reply to top
#11
Rob,
How to disable ato when you want to change water?
Reply to top
#12
Hi Dom, that's something I haven't really thought of, I guess the best way is adjusting the setting for how often the water level is checked on the service window. I always planned to have a maintenance mode which I would add it to, I'll also have to add the ATO pump to the custom rules so you could use a float switch to disable ATO. If you can think of a better way let me know.
Reply to top
#13
Maintenance mode. I guess you think about a mode where we could select what we want to disable/enable during maintenance with one touch? E.g. Pumps, heaters, leds, feeder, etc...
Reply to top
#14
I think It would be helpfull to have a menue like the feeder menue, where you can choose witch plugs ar on and off when you change the water.
An other possibility would perhaps be to use an analog sensor port with a switch on it and the custom rules to switch some things on or off.
Reply to top
#15
Yeah exactly Dom, just like the feeder schedule but more equipment. I like Roland's idea with a switch but it won't help stop the ATO today as that pump isn't in the rules yet. I'll add a temporary option soon so it can be shut down without messing with the timer as that isn't ideal because left long enough it'll still go off. If you left the ATO check water every 24hrs that could be dangerous because when you start the maintenance the timer could be close to 24hrs and startup. If you always set to 1 hour and then change to 24hrs when you do the maintenance it'll give you 23 hrs of no action just be sure to go back to 1 hour when you resume.
Reply to top
#16
I turn off my ATO when I do take maintenance generally because it take me an hour just to do a water change. I know every one doesn't take that long but going in to settings and just click off is a good way for me I wouldn't use a timer for it to be off than just come back on when time is up if I am not done then it is a hassle with wet hands to do it or if I am done I don't want to wait on the pumps to start up on auto.

This is just my opinion
Reply to top
#17
Hi Rott, yeah I'm going to add a button to turn it on/off, the timer that's already there is just a temporary solution but I agree not ideal.
Reply to top
#18
I think off and on would be ideal for this situation
Reply to top
#19
Yeah it's something I never thought of, I'll get that added soon.
Reply to top
#20
is it done yet? LoL just kidding
Reply to top


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Wink Any recommended Dosing pump fred73 6 5,141 09-11-2019, 07:52 AM
Last Post: Rob F
  ATO not working right brfreeman7 16 11,311 01-08-2019, 01:20 PM
Last Post: Rob F
  ATO Works Reverse Addi 17 13,748 04-09-2018, 11:58 PM
Last Post: jmcadsl
  Can the USB spare connector be used for MEGA Programming? Steve S 5 6,245 05-30-2016, 07:40 PM
Last Post: Rob F

Forum Jump:

Current time: 03-28-2024, 05:53 AM